Reels & Riddims
Welcome to Reels & Riddims!
Mikelah and Kerry-Ann, two friends and culture enthusiasts, give their eclectic mix of commentary and reviews in world of TV, Film, and Concerts. From dissecting storylines in TV and film that feature Caribbean characters, to the irresistible 'riddims' of the concerts, Reels and Riddims got you covered.
Reels & Riddims
Exploring Queenie: Book vs Hulu Series & Celebrating Caribbean Identities
Join us on this episode of Reels and Riddims, where we discuss Candice Carty Williams' "Queenie," and its Hulu miniseries adaptation.
We dissect Queenie's tumultuous journey through her twenties, including her relationships, exploring her dating life, the influence of her family history, and the body fetishization she faces. We also try unravel the complexities in her strained relationship with her mother.
Celebrate the richness of Jamaican and Caribbean identities on screen with us. Whether you're a fan of compelling storytelling or crave authentic cultural representation, this episode is a must-listen as we wrap up an exhilarating season of Reels and Riddims.
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- Website | YouTube
A Breadfruit Media Production
Hello, massive and Crew, welcome back to another episode of Reels and Rhythms brought to you by Carry On Friends in partnership with the Style to the Vibes and Breadfruit Media and me. Well, excited today because we have our special guest, miss Hal-Hexandria. But now I'm going to mess up our name with the extra H's and, of course, my co-host with the mostest. So Michaela, big up to people them. And then Alexandra, you're not a stranger, so ill up to people them. After Mikaela Run it.
Speaker 2:Mikaela Wagwan, family wagwan. Welcome Alexandra, You're no stranger, but always love to have you on and chatting with you. It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 3:Yes, wagwan, wagwan people. Thank you, carrie and michaela, for having me um.
Speaker 1:It's a pleasure always to be over here on the reels and rhythm side, yes, yes. So, like I said, um very excited because we are about to talk about the big bad queenie, um, and it's also a good way for us to wrap up this season of reels and rhythms. It's been a season I think we're literally going to wrap up the season on a bang based on old Queenie and our friend named the Dagwan Well, festive, well, festive, well, since High Harder Hunty in the room, michaela's junior Hunty, right. So we're talking about Queenie Alexandra. Why don't you tell the Massive and Crew what Queenie is about, and then we'll just jump in Sure.
Speaker 3:So originally, queenie was a book published by Candice Carty Williams in 2019. Recently, as of June 7th I believe, hulu debuted their mini series of sorts, I guess you would call it which was a translation of the book into a miniseries. Of course, obviously, as we know with anything that's a translation from a book to a movie or TV show, it's not exactly 100% the contents of the book translated into the show, but overall it is a story about a young adult, coming-of-age Jamaican, british woman and her journey just in her 20s, discovering herself. I think there are great topics in terms of self-worth and self-love, her negotiations with her relationships. Obviously, there is stuff related to family issues and generational traumas, sexuality and consent, but really just her sort of evolution and trying to understand herself amidst what can be called chaos we might just call it life and figuring out yourself in your 20s, which I think, as somebody in her 20s, can be a crazy time sometimes, but yes.
Speaker 1:Michaela, I'm going to come back to you. I'm going to be honest, right, so me never read a book. I went back into my audible history because you know I listen to the book and I probably got to an hour and 45 minutes and then I stopped reading the book. I said I can't manage. And full disclosure, I'm way past where Queenie was in this book. So I had to take junior Auntie Michaela advice and put myself back into my 20s to see if I can relate to a certain degree with Queenie and what happened there, I mean outside of where she is and what's happening. I think, like you said, alexandra, the themes are regardless of age, group and generation some of them. But I love that you read the book and Michaela and I didn't, because this is a flip from when we talked about Black Cake, when I read the book and was big, bad and hangry, huffing and puffing like the wolf about what is right and what wasn't a proper translation. So this is a different position to be in. Michaela, you wanted to say something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have the book. I meant to read it before it came out and I actually started it this year. So I got through what was episode one of the series and really just time so I had the physical book. So that's where I went wrong. I bought the physical book a while ago and I bought a copy for my sister, but physical books I love them. I don't always have the time to read them, so I don't have the same context as Alexandria. So, leaning on you to tell us about, you know, the accuracy specifically. But I did enjoy, you know, seeing it come to life, and especially with Candace Cardi Williams just you know, coming off of Champion and the excitement that we saw around that and other British actors really taking front stage, if you will, in in this particular series as well. So I'm excited for the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not going through it like how we did champion, episode by episode. So big takeaway from the series Alexandra, your takeaway. Did you like it? Did you not like it? Let's start there.
Speaker 3:And I'm talking the series and the book, or just the series. Say what they're upon your chest, get it off your chest. Well, before I even talk about this series, I love the book. First off the book the Pretty. I know you guys have seen the cover. If you first off the book, be pretty, I know you guys have seen the cover.
Speaker 3:If you've owned the book, the book was beautiful, even if it never. I mean, obviously, as a Jamaican, I'm gonna be biased and say a man, true, say is me. But outside of that, I would have bought the book probably regardless, just because it was cute, and then it'd come in different color. The original was orange and then orange, yeah, yes, but then she made the debut in different colors too. So it was just a beautiful book, I think. Cover wise. Um them said don't judge a book by its cover.
Speaker 3:But I was a fan regardless, as a black woman. Um, I was younger than Queenie, I believe, when it first debuted, or probably around the exact same age, and so for me it was laughs. I remember reading it during my lunch break at work and I was deading with laugh and ironically, I was at the time in a lot of like Black women's reading groups and you know there's books to grammars and all these people to follow online, and a lot of Black women hated the book. I can't remember at the time now whether they were women, you know, of Caribbean descent or from the Caribbean or if it was people abroad, etc. But I felt like, to some degree, the book got a lot of hate or just, you know, people saying maybe they couldn't finish it because it was cringy or whatever to them, and I felt like it was an unfair representation, especially, um, at least the spaces and the people that you know I heard from I'll speak to specifically those spaces as opposed to everybody but I enjoyed it.
Speaker 3:I think for some people it might have been a. You know there's a lot of messiness but, as I said, right, life is messy, um, and I think sometimes we want things to be tied up in a bow in a certain way and fairy tale endings and stuff, which I don't think that was necessarily the point of it. Right, it's that we're along our journey and we're figuring out as we go. It doesn't need to, you know, suddenly we see Queenie like girl bossing and you know what, what may have you in her 40s and married or whatever it would have looked like for some people, and so I really enjoyed it. I thought there were moments, of course, that I identified with as a fellow person of Jamaican descent and understanding how our dynamics are with family of different generations, and I thought it was funny. It's definitely comical in certain instances and I think it brought a lot of joy to me in reading it. So I was, of course, very excited to see when the TV show was picked up and developed by Hulu, which I also did enjoy.
Speaker 3:Now, of course, right, there are a few differences between the book and the show that we will get into potentially in our discussion today, but I think it really did it well, especially, you know, when we have to understand that.
Speaker 3:You know you can't translate everything over from a whole book of 200 odd pages to just an eight episode miniseries and the episodes are like 24 minutes each, give or take right. So I think, all those things considered, and especially, I think, the fact that what I was listening to in a interview you know, somebody was interviewing Candace Carty Williams her attention to detail and realizing that the book was released in 2019. So there were particular things at the height of 2019, systemically, or going on in the world, that she had to change and tone down a little bit for the sake of, obviously, the limited time for this series, but also 2019 is not 2024, and those things need to be attended to if we're really going to tell a story in a meaningful way, and so I think both were done really well. I also always love when the writers of a book are kept, you know, as part of the production, so she co-produced it as well in terms of the TV show, and so, yeah, I thought it was a great series and one that I definitely enjoyed watching.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because I didn't realize like people hated the book. You know I got it because I saw Jamaican British and I said, okay, we're going to support this. But it wasn't that I hated the book. So I lost patience for Queenie vacillating between a Telemann or a Fino. Telemann Like Fino patient was done Like Queenie come on teleman like and I think a lot of people felt that way.
Speaker 1:I was just like I, if me, I forgot you the city, rest of the book, make a fling with the book. That's how I felt. So I was like you know what let me just pause here and also where I was at the time. You know it's 2019, you know I have a one-year-old, so so the patience to sit this through and, you know, go through it with Queenie wasn't there. That's kind of where I was. I didn't hate it, it was just that I didn't have the patience with the character to go through. And even in the series, you know, my husband was watching it for me and him say, cause I binged it. And him say you know what, after three episode, no, I'm done. So it was just all the shenanigans, because in three episodes we got a lot. So he was just like, yeah, I haven't had enough. But it's very interesting that people have this feedback.
Speaker 2:So thanks for sharing that. Michaela Ronit, I could understand why that would be the case. That's a little bit more challenging to read, but I think that that attitudinally played out well on screen because essentially she's having this thought, whereas if you're reading it it's kind of like hurry up and get to that, whereas I already kind of identified it as a slower start. But so was Black Cake. I feel like I didn't really know the premise of Black Cake and I listened to the audiobook so I could see how people would either get lost in the beginning.
Speaker 2:The other thought as I was watching it is it really reminded me a lot of the Gabrielle Union series on BET being Mary Jane? I feel like this is what Mary Jane kind of would have been like in her twenties Messy, all over the place, not fully thought out, and that's kind of what you get is like the diarrhea of all the responsibilities and the excitement that your twenties bring. And I think that, especially as we get older and we get wiser and we understand, we seem so far removed from the messiness that is the twenties. And you know, fortunately, you know, I could live my life offline where it, you know, doesn't impact. Um, they don't really get into that and Queenie is more of like her and her friends in the group chat thing. So we don't see that messiness evolve as much and I could totally relate to some of the things not all the things, but some of the things that she was experiencing.
Speaker 2:And then I'm curious how the sexual fetishization of Black women came across in the book versus the series, because it seemed to be identified very early for me as a viewer by like episode two, if not one, which that didn't really become very clear, like I ended, time point wise, at the end of chapter one. It didn't feel that way in the book necessarily, so I'm curious how that really played out. So, alexandra, I'm going to lean on you with that, but that was one of the clear themes I think that I truly identified very early in the series.
Speaker 1:Along that vein. My husband was watching it and he was like she only date white men. Like what was what was happening? When I first read the book I was like oh, she's in the UK. I guess you know this is part of the thing. But as I was watching the series I was like you know it was a legit question because she didn't seem to blink our better eye at um any of the other dudes.
Speaker 2:But I think it made sense, given her history, with her stepfather right and her dad disowning like her dad, not owning up to her, her father, her stepdad being a black man, and she is thinking she's so much like her mom. The easiest way for her to not be like her mom is to date outside of her race and do something different. So I immediately caught on, but from the interactions it just felt like such a fetish for all of the men that she dated. So it's not, you know, really like that she was dating outside of her race. It's the way that they just like identified her body as this exotic thing, that thing period that they could utilize for their pleasure and pleasure only, and it was just very like. Oh, I just felt icky watching it.
Speaker 3:it definitely was a big part of the book as well, something that I definitely noted and, I think, something that also may have created some of the turmoil in responses to the the novel as well. Um, and even in certain discussions I've had with friends who, you know, started it and said they couldn't even bother finish it, right. They were like, yeah, you know, fetish, like it was just getting a little bit too much for them, right, and so I stuck it out, really triggered her to just say, all right let me follow the friend and just be liberated.
Speaker 1:Was that ever clear? Because it went from her being prudish about her relationship with Tom and what they did to all out. She's all out. Did we remember why she did that switch? It was her lack of response.
Speaker 2:I think that really kind of pushed her over the edge, like he wouldn't respond to her text messages and then when he responded, it was kind of like um, we need a clean break. That means no communication. So after she's essentially sent him this very sexy picture that she thinks is going to draw out a different kind of response, she doesn't get the response that she wants and she's just like, oh, she thinks is going to draw out a different kind of response. She doesn't get the response that she wants and she's just like oh well, I'm going to show him I'm not over here wasting this dress. Like in her mind she's thinking that Tom is out here thinking about her and her feelings and he clearly wasn't. He just was just like.
Speaker 1:I think that's what I didn't like about the book. The tone in which Tom talked down to her. It was very condescending. I mean I said you know what, God knows who he makes for who, and don't you know who's frightened.
Speaker 2:So let me just but there's an entire context of their relationship that we don't see play out, so we don't know how they met when they were good, like what that relationship was like. You know, he expressed the need for her to open up and she couldn't. And essentially she probably couldn't open up Because, one, tom couldn't relate and, two, she couldn't truly verbalize it for herself and he wasn't really going to be patient with her In that regard.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's talk about our friend.
Speaker 2:Which one? She's my favorite character.
Speaker 3:Oh yes.
Speaker 1:Not the work friend and not the uni friend. What's her name? Jessica?
Speaker 2:How do you pronounce her name?
Speaker 3:I don't even remember.
Speaker 2:Because it's not spelled how it's pronounced. No, it's spelled like K-Y. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Either way, the friend, the friend was funny. She was like yo, I had on these boots. And the guy come take me to, let's say, red Lobster. It's a tire and it's a rod, it's like what? She was killing me. And then the dude came up. I was just like yeah, yeah, I got a new job um clears or something like that. I was. You know, my husband was hollering, okay, so you get a discount.
Speaker 2:He's like 50 just for you. She's like I can't work with that and then roll eyes, but you're gonna pick up the food no, but the part where she said before was like she's, she's like yo queenie.
Speaker 1:I saw this guy and I was like please don't let me look, please don't let me look at you. Look like she work on one bank and she gonna pull up in bank account and she said no money, not in there.
Speaker 2:She said I'm like wow, I, I loved her character even the way she come in me in the office and defended Fia.
Speaker 1:I was just like yes by the way, don't you know? That's what's his name from Champion. Yes, the co-worker, the white co-worker the one that married the brother baby mother to the US yeah yeah, yeah, bosco, baby, mother, osman, yeah, our boyfriend, yes, I was like what you know, but I I liked her energy and I just know people like that and it was good to see um.
Speaker 1:I think at one point, though, it was hard for me to really understand until the very end, the issue with Queenie and our mother, because we knew it was something with the mother.
Speaker 1:I think it took a very long time to get to what really is the issue, and I wish they had kind of brought that in or sped it up a little bit to get to that. And then, because I think where they left it at the end, then could I give you a little bit more sense, instead of stretch out the issue with the mother, kind of speed up what the issue with them? And and here's why I think we all hear how people have trauma with their mother and grandmother, right, what we don't see enough of is that path or that process to reconciliation, and that's what I would want to see more of. Not like I don't like you we get that part right. Let's see what it looks like when there's this process to reconciliation, and I didn't see that. I wanted to see more of that. So I'm not sure if they got to that in the book, but that's what I would love. Would have loved to see.
Speaker 2:What was the issue with her mom? Like I don't think that there was one thing Can we discuss, cause even by the end I kind of have an idea.
Speaker 1:So the mother is a jacket.
Speaker 2:No no, no, but that's not, but that's not the issue. Yes, the mother is a jacket. Yes, but that's not the mother's issue, that's not her issue with her mom All right.
Speaker 1:So all right, let's back up Big up to Jeffrey Right.
Speaker 3:So big up to Jeffrey from Fresh Prince Abelia Albert maybe Right.
Speaker 1:And so grandma get one letter from her little Spooky back home and the come, and she hide the letter from the new. You know Jeffrey. I don't know him as another name, jeffrey.
Speaker 2:Winford is his name.
Speaker 1:Winford Anyway. So it would assume that she came up pregnant based on what I see I'm going to read the book. She come up pregnant and she have a baby.
Speaker 2:Wilfred, wilfred.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she have the baby. And the woman say, oh, this baby light, right. So we already know what you say. Now, the mother growing up, there was a big age gap, obviously, between the big sister and she and from all intents and purposes they seem to have a good life. It all spiraled out of control when the big man did put her eye upon the mother and the mother feel like, oh, I'm beautiful, I'm fabulous, and he says he's going to marry me. And the sister say what, when one do with you like a pitney and oh, my art girl, um, paraphrasing um. And then she come back I'm pregnant.
Speaker 1:And you have to remember that the mother is still young. So, as a teenager, you are madly in love with this person. You rebel against the system, or in love me, and you swear, say I'm going to leave the wife. You understand so the age and her understanding that this was never going to happen. No, you have a baby. You wrap up postpartum emotion, bangerang, age, all of that. And so I don't know if her mother was ever good. She just learned to survive and be a mom until the next man come in our life, essentially, until the next man come in our life essentially, and when the next man come in, I guess maybe she wanted to show she was really devoted, because maybe she didn't want to show the baby father say I'm, you know, my number one, I'm devoted, or whatever it is, and then he was an abuser and all these things. That's what I got from the little piece piece that mommy get and I have a very, very big, big imagination.
Speaker 3:so all if I never saw you go as somebody that put in the piece thing in there that's definitely what I got and, very interestingly enough, we didn't get as much of that storyline in the book um, which I found is an interesting take. There was obviously, you know, conflict between queenie and her relationship with her mom, which obviously then translated to the whole family on the whole and obviously, you know, queenie's grandmother wanting to be like yo and her auntie, of course, obviously wanting to be like link your mother, link your mother and all of these things. But we didn't get the extent of the storyline between the mother, her relationship, the stepfather and all of these things in the novel. So that was an interesting angle for me between the differences between the novel and the TV show.
Speaker 1:And it still wasn't even clear. I mean, the mother decision to get to a separate apartment and put her in the apartment is wild. But what led to that? We never really get clear. We assume that there was maybe some abuse in there and we're not even sure why she get money. Like that wasn't clear. So again it leaves it to my imagination to flinging all of the blanks. Then you know about what could have happened. Maybe he's scammer out our pension, I don't know. You know so. But it was a sizable enough money. So we just didn't get that aspect of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, it's like there were still like a lot of open ended ideas around the relationship with her mom and why she avoided mom and why she avoided. But sometimes it really isn't that complicated. I guess it's really just a series of things that as children you can't get over. As a viewer looking in, you kind of think, well, okay, she has abandonment issues, yes, there was abuse there, but we don't know what type of child she was or how she reacts to things. So for some it may seem like hurry up and react, but we've seen her. She's very slow to react.
Speaker 2:She's internalizes a lot of things and that seems to have always been part of her character. And they allude to her mom being the same way the grandparents do in terms of personality differences between the way they kind of thought about strength, and I thought you know the way that the grandmother really encapsulated her speech at the end around what strength looks like and how it looks different. And I'm like man, that's a moment plenty, plenty people did not get. So I think it was almost like a nice nod to those who have similar relationships but will never get the closure of having that with their own parent. At least they can kind of see it and what it could look like from that perspective, and I don't think that Queenie and her mom necessarily have a closure conversation. It just is what it is and you don't really know. She does say I want to have a relationship with her. I'm going to talk to her at some point, I think.
Speaker 1:But that's what I was saying, like I wanted to see more of that struggle back and forth versus I don't want to talk to my mom, right, because we've all seen that. What I want to see is more of what we saw to the end. Initially she was steadfast, but not take the money. Then she decided she'd go and take the money and then you started to see the, you know, she lean in and she pull back. She lean in and she pull back because that's really what it is right on this, this thing. It's not like, oh, we've cleared the air and now we're good again. No, on a slight work, but it would be good to see how that is played out on screen. So I want to switch gears a little bit.
Speaker 1:We did talk about, you know, the sexual fetish of the black woman.
Speaker 1:I don't really want to go too much into that because I think hyper focusing on that takes away from some of the other themes that were also in the series how she was treated while she was in the hospital and you know, like they're asking her questions and some of them was like, really, is this the question you're gonna ask me the lack of bedside manners and care into how she she was so we see that play out in the UK here in a medical facility and how she was trying to be seen at work.
Speaker 1:Now, granted, queenie, if me aween Queenie, manager me no know how much, peep me nega, put Queenie pan baka Queenie, just you know. But those issues aside, you saw that she was trying to progress in some way at work and those opportunities were just like all right, there there, go back to what we hired you for, type things. And so those are themes that were very important because they all played a role in her spiral, for lack of a better word Because in her mind, no good, nothing good is happening, not at work, not with the man, mommy, whatever. So I just wanted to call out, like those are, two critical themes that I saw that could be overshadowed.
Speaker 2:Me really didn't want no white. Why, queenie, show up to work so, like she never have no bra topsy, she go in her t-shirt and then try and pitch new ideas Like, come, my girl, your co-worker, dress for the job. Like, come on, come on, come on. I was.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's probably part of her character and I know it's not like the sole focus, but it was just those little like if you're not gonna get the role, don't let you know your unprofessionalism. Or you know, when she did avon this camp, love god, love god I said no, no, queenie, no, no. And it unfortunate, but they're not going to take you seriously. They didn't even touch on that. They just touched on her attitude and her behavior and her not getting the role. But so I think she also played a part in her not getting the opportunities that she truly wanted, because she came and then she came with the pitch. It was haphazard, it wasn't thought out, she was late to meetings, late to work. You know she had a lot going on, but she was still trying to have moments at work because that's probably the only thing that she could focus on at the time. But that was the only aspect in which I was disappointed with her and was her approach to work.
Speaker 3:Yes, they were wrong, but also she didn't put her best foot forward either hour work thing that they had, um, or right before, and the her boss, her manager, comes up to her and is like yo, take some time off, take a long weekend or whatever. And she was like I can't be by myself because that's when the demons start to come in, so I need to come to work and stay busy. Um, one thing I did think was an interesting sort of difference in terms of work life and, like you know, her pitches and things. So, obviously, um, her pitches were definitely black focused. Right, she was talking about um, wanting to have various discussions, whether it was, you know, black women who and black people who are critical um, or activism and you know things to nature.
Speaker 3:And I saw, definitely noted, the sort of not necessarily downplay, but compared to the book, it was written because it debuted in 2019. Right, so it's sort of written, I'm assuming, at the sort of peak of Black Lives Matter, you know, global protest going on, pre-covid of course, pre-covid of course, and obviously it's still sort of in the realm that she was discussing in terms of what her pitches were for the job here and what she wanted she hoped to put out, but they were lesser to an extent. Right, it was a tremendous part of the work.
Speaker 2:I mean, work regardless was still not necessarily going well for her in the novel either, um, but I I noted definitely the way that time period played and how it shifted the angles of the the book versus the movie or the tv show rather and then look what she leave and do our own look a series and our boss come back and say, oh, this is wonderful, like like she hasn't been pitching those ideas to you for how long, from one time time, and all of a sudden, now that she's done it by herself, it's you know, because she can visually see the reaction that it's getting. It's not necessarily that it was an important story to tell, but she, she knew the power of social media and that the story and the position in which she told the story. But that's essentially what Queenie was trying to offer in her work on a regular basis and it wasn't until it was recognized externally that they all of a sudden saw value in her work.
Speaker 1:All right. So what was the funniest moment in the series? I know my husband was hollering when the brown, you would say um, because he felt he had all this.
Speaker 2:Oh the destroyer, the defender was just like what oh, yes, yes, the indian guy, yes, his, um personal parts Him. Name it the defender.
Speaker 1:I destroy her someday.
Speaker 2:I destroy her and him, not damage nothing. The only thing about damage are in marriage.
Speaker 1:One thing was funny is the woman out of the street with the mic Jazzy there?
Speaker 2:She did not catch a break. No, I was just like Queenie. What?
Speaker 3:Everywhere she went.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, yes, yes yes, what else?
Speaker 1:There was definitely some other moments, but the woman punished me In the club.
Speaker 3:That was a good scene too. So there's a scene in the club where you know, in a lot of ways, I think there are a lot of things that the that the TV show tried to nail on Right, whether it's gentrification, and you know, it just didn't hit the nail. It wasn't as hard hitting but there were points that could be drawn out. So there's a scene when they're at the club and sort of get into a disagreement. I'll say I don't want to give away too much?
Speaker 1:We're not. It's a spoiler show.
Speaker 3:All right then. So, since we're doing spoilers, there's a scene in the club where you know everybody at full gyedem, like Oselfa or whatever, and Queenie Dede, and you know they've always described her throughout the show as sort of going back to the fetishization, as being curvaceous, but then a white woman in the club decides to grab her butt. Um, and obviously not you know, naturally she has a reaction, her friend has a reaction, and they end up being the ones that get kicked out of the club. Um, because the white girl does her very karen-esque thing and start baldo in the place and say she hit me, she hit me and one bag of thing. Um, I mean, structural issues aside, I did think that's.
Speaker 1:That scene was funny yeah, but it goes back to fetishizing. The black woman's body isn't limited to just a male gaze, it's also female female and then weaponized against her, exactly exactly let's talk about therapy.
Speaker 1:So we this doesn't have to be a long discussion therapy when grandma african guitar, a therapy, and grandma the quarrel about the money she have to spend. Listen, if nobody, not ever grandmother, will complain about too much money, they have to spend, to come pick you up somewhere, so them coming around to her doing therapy, because the grandmother was very stern about family business. To stay a family business, and again it's always the grandfather. That's cool and just be like. You know, there has to be a character that is a symbol of calm and that was the grandfather and a voice of reason. Sometime other than the time when Queenie says she'll go, she'll go, be it. And the grandfather said remember the water bill, because Queenie loves to take bath. If that is not a very Caribbean thing. Remember the light, turn off the light, remember the water bill. But I did, yeah, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, I was like there were a lot of like chuckle and laugh out loud moments like that throughout this. I don't see one that like hysterically stands out to me. But there were also a lot of good tender moments. So even you know, as Queenie's taking a bath and her grandma comes in and is like washing, like she's like it's intrusive but she doesn't mind because it's somebody you know that like it's a moment that she's having with her grandma, like, and she and the grandmother's like. Let me see everything where I've already right in true granny form.
Speaker 3:We're done, yes, yes yes.
Speaker 2:So I love the moments between her and her grandparents and even her cousin, like they were all very well-rounded characters to kind of bring out Queenie's life and her family, and it showed like how much support that she had, even if they didn't really understand her. Like how much support that she had even if they didn't really understand her. They were still very supportive of who she was and they gave her her space, um, but they knew when to push and they knew when to back off. So I thought that was kind of sweet. There were a lot of sweet moments like that. The grandmother was my favorite character no one.
Speaker 1:The auntie said never there with a gem, a gemini man. She said I thought never there was a gemini man. She say Never there with a Gemini.
Speaker 3:And then Queenie say are you using Gemini Right?
Speaker 1:You know, and at one point to the end, auntie, I do a whole sermon over the food and the grandmother go amen, like, cut it short, amen, like got this shot. But I did like those elements where family is not perfect. They're all these different characters, but these caster characters, you know, they are a familial unit and for different reasons you like them or not, so I did enjoy that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the casting was really well, very similar to Champion. Champion yeah, candace Carty Williams, big up yourself, yeah, and then put on the casting, and it was, I don't know. I'm sure she's not the only person who determined that, but I think the casting was done really well too. I liked it.
Speaker 1:I liked it a lot when I liked it. I liked it a lot when she finally have a crush on a little fella, maybe. Maybe we come in the binge watch it, may I say why, that's Frank.
Speaker 3:Frank yeah.
Speaker 1:Like at one point. She's like a pen. Okay To inner your feelings, cause I'm possibly willy par girl. So again, I feel like either I was watching it and things missed me, or Frank becoming an interest Came really fast Given the speed of the series.
Speaker 2:No, but her and Frank were friends, because she knows Frank.
Speaker 1:No, I know that, but you never see him in a romantic way.
Speaker 2:Well, she's been dating all white guys.
Speaker 1:But I think there were hints, right, there were hints, so like she never pick it in when they drop them hard. She never pick him up. She was not sure.
Speaker 3:But like the moment. I think there's the scene when, um, he helps her move right and he says something kind of flirtatious to her I can't remember what exactly and she's like, oh, leave it to him now to try to say something. And then, as you said, carrie, two, twos him, get a call and he's like yo, babes. So she's like, oh, it's over, right, like never mind, and I'll just keep doing whatever else I'm doing. So, to the point that I think we made earlier, there was obviously a slowness in Queenie's evolution or ability to sort of maybe a self-awareness and emotional intelligence as well. That, I think, might have also been a challenge for people, whether they're reading or watching the TV show.
Speaker 1:For sure, and I guess the only point may have left is oh, dear Tom, come back with flowers at the end.
Speaker 2:I want to beat you when did I go, tom? I really wanted the satisfaction of saying she's like Tom, we didn't want her to tell him to go about his business.
Speaker 1:Come on. No, but she obviously take the flowers and then dash them away. Make him go back with the flowers she shouldn't have, and then we don't see what happened with frank if frank walk off, or she claimed from frank and said come on, boo, like me. No, no, it does segue. I mean, it's like why deny us the satisfaction you know? But you can tell us what really happened in that book.
Speaker 3:I mean, there were still, even in the book a lot of unknowns, in the same way that you're saying you wanted more um from the show as well. I think that was also done intentionally. For me it was like I think it would have been too easy to wrap up everything and say, oh yeah, man, and no sure why, yes, so, and I live great life and listen, you're all drunk raw, you're, you're, you're getting new woman.
Speaker 1:Quick, right, tell about a clean break, right, you get new woman. Then you come around. I can't come show up with flowers at my good good housewarming, like I need to tell you not even one cent, two cent, five cent, a whole hundred dollar bill worth of things. Him need, want a trace off. Exactly, he needed a proper telling off.
Speaker 2:He need a proper one, Like a good cuss out. The friend should have cussed him out. The friend would have given him a riot.
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure she would have Gave him a riot yeah for sure she would have Did do a bit of Then clean.
Speaker 1:Alright, I guess the last thing I'm going to go, do it Just for completeness, but it doesn't really matter to me. The friend and the texting them, the group message, you mean, yes, the one was saying, oh, she take her man, I'm like you know, I mean I have time for this here. You know that's me. Just I does not. I mean I said, oh, no, mats it out. You know, so the girl, when they talk to the guy, so oh, oh, she take your. How your mats this out. You, you never want to share who he was. So how did she know that this guy was like he never make common sense, so how something's like. You know what me does bring it up.
Speaker 2:But I was happy for her response to her. When she saw her in a coffee shop. She was just like I'm being kind, but don't, don't think we good, you know, I love. I love that because it was her setting clear boundaries for um herself and the people in her life and she wanted her ear to kind of blend and kind of catch up and she thought that it was just going to pick up right where it left off. And I think Queenie really sharing that? No, that's not the case. I can show you grace, but you didn't give me the same and had you not walked into this coffee shop, we probably wouldn't have even had this conversation. So don't even think for a second that I'm about to let you back in. And she ultimately did the same thing with Tom. Of course, she wasn't as dismissive to Tom as she was to the friend named Cassandra.
Speaker 3:Cassandra.
Speaker 1:It was Cassandra.
Speaker 2:Okay, and one time it did things that Cassandra and Darcy were the same, but it was because they were doing hot yoga in the studio. I was like, oh no, it's a different girl. What was interesting to me is the fact that she had all of her friends in one group chat. I feel like her best friend should be on one side and then Cassandra on the other one, Because they didn't all seem like they were friends.
Speaker 3:They were not.
Speaker 2:It seemed odd to me that they were all in a group chat together, because to me their friendship nucleus was Queenie, Like they weren't all friends.
Speaker 1:It was a convenient chat for Queenie and nobody else.
Speaker 2:Yes, clearly, clearly that must have been WhatsApp. Clearly she's like I'm just updating everybody all at the same time one time, because I don't have time to be deliberating in two different group chats, I guess.
Speaker 1:But of all of them it's Darcy. I'm going to keep messing up her name. Is it Chesky or cheska? Um, they, those two were close enough to her because they came to her house or they were familiar enough. So yeah, I don't know, but it was interesting. So, overall what's.
Speaker 2:So let's go, sandra. She got over the people that all speak um by mitzvah. Oh, what was it? Because that was Cassandra's dad's house. That was Cassandra's family's house, so it's not like them just become friends. No, no, no.
Speaker 1:I'm not talking. They're my friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because Cassandra was just as close to her, I think, as Darcy, at least the way that they framed it, they looked closer.
Speaker 1:Darcy was the work friend and at one point Darcy was tired of the mess.
Speaker 3:Darcy was like. Darcy a cover for her at work, darcy a carry, whatever she need water. Yeah, and everything was very one-sided. It was a one-sided relationship. Yeah, there's a scene where Queenie and Darcy are talking about the things, about what them do with them man or whoever and as soon as Darcy turn and start tell our business, queenie was like, okay, cool, but anyways, about this man when we meet on XYZ?
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think you know it was also a reflecting point in terms of who her friends are, what they do for her, you know, and sometimes there was a transactional basis there, depending on the friend and uh, darcy kind of gave her some ice at one point for the new year when she was like you know, I'm I'm trying to be more focused and Queenie, I try tele-business and she's just like you know, I'm just really focused and she kind of picked that up. But Queenie never really fully get the memo, like when Tom say, need a clean break. So I do feel like it was. It's very one-sided. But I also don't know if we're just seeing this that she's needy because the spiral from Tom and everything else. We don't know what their relationship was before everything spiraled out of control. So I'll give her that While we gave some spoilers, we didn't give away a lot.
Speaker 1:Like you said, the series had funny moments but there were some themes in there. I think guys watching this might have a huge issue with the sex in the series and how much of it there was in the series. It can be jarring to see or experience, but we lose sight Of the more important Underlying issue there and how black women's bodies Are viewed and portrayed and the negotiation carry right.
Speaker 3:There's the issue of Is it okay for me to want to be Sexually liberated Versus women? Auntie and granny, I go think bold me and all of the negotiations that I think sexually liberated versus women, auntie and granny, I go think bold me, and um the all of the negotiations that I think black women have to deal with. Um, and you know, as we said, for a few other things, maybe there weren't things that were as um, open or as direct in the TV show because, again, I think they had a lot to work with in a limited space of time. But these are all themes that I think, if you really sit with the some of the issues at hand, it definitely come about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because even in the scene where grandmother wash her back, I said, no worry, you're not have nothing. When we see, let's see, already, right In that moment she's naked in the bathtub and grandma to beat her. But when she dress up as the playboy Bonnie, I go, grandma says Jesus, take you know. And it's like, wait, she have on clothes. So what's the difference between she have on clothes it looked like a bath suit, but she still have on clothes dress versus you know her naked in the bathtub and you washing her back. So you know her having to negotiate that with the auntie going from tell people, send her there with Gemini and quote scriptures in between. Like that's, like you said, is a lot to negotiate about. Am I, should, I, could I, all those things? So I like this year's, I all those things. So I like the series. I think it was funny, as always.
Speaker 1:I feel like we're at a point where, wow, we have multiple programming on TV, where it's not a full reflection of me in my 20s or at 25 or you, but there is Jamaican and Caribbean culture, you know, on screen.
Speaker 1:It is just really good to see, because what I think Candace does well with Queenie and with Champion is like. I feel like people don't know how to tell Jamaican and Caribbean stories because they fetishize the Yaman, the Ganja spoken and all the stereotypes around what it is to be a Caribbean or a Jamaican person. At the end of it, we're normal people and it's just that our culture allows us to react different or tell different stories. Here you see a story of somebody emigrating to another country, the complexities of having here you see a story of somebody emigrating to another country, the complexities of having two different lives. Most immigrants, we have two lives the lives back home and the lives that we come here to live and that creates connectivity. Right, because this is not just for me who born in the region you think of, or children who will be born here and want to see themselves reflected right, and want to see themselves reflected right In it. Right, what does that look like? So I'm glad we're wrapping up the season on Queenie.
Speaker 2:For me it's a sitcom. I felt like it's a sitcom that I would be watching, whether it looked like Fresh Off the Boat Black-ish Abbott Elementary, where it's situational comedy and it has real heavier moments, whereas Champion was like a drama. You know it's a drama series and so when we look at it from that perspective, like I think both series did a really good job of interweaving Caribbean culture in an authentic way, but staying true to what they were, which was a drama series and a sitcom, both adapted very differently. So I enjoyed it. I think it's something that I would rewatch and I found really funny moments and educational moments and I think people should really just enjoy it for that sake. Everything doesn't have to be like the biggest explosive, best things in sliced bread. We deserve all the different stories. So that's what I loved about this series in particular, and even without reading the book.
Speaker 3:I agree with both of you and I think the fact that we get to we're getting more of also like Black Caribbean British TV awareness, I think too, which is something I definitely didn't have. I mean, you know, from a historical perspective, I have cousins and family that I know are in England but I, until very recently, you know, we have we've had a slew of shows, whether it's Champion and others, that have been covered on Reels and Rhythms, that we're getting more awareness and exposure to Black British culture over here on this side of the ocean, which I think is also a great part of us even just understanding who we are as a diaspora. Right, there were movies obviously shot in the US or shot in Canada or shot in the region that I'm sure.
