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A Breadfruit Media Production
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A Breadfruit Media Production
Hello Massive, hello crew, welcome back to another episode of Reels and Rhythms. And, as always, reels and Rhythms is brought to you by Carry On Friends, in partnership with Style and Vibes and Breadfruit Media, and I'm here with my co-host, my partner in creative crime, miss Michaela Welcome you look the massive and crude.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I like that. I like that creative partner in crime.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, so I think so. So for this episode of Reels and Rhythms, we are doing a combo. We're talking about a documentary, so that's a reel, but the documentary features an artist, so that's the rhythms part of it. So we just love when that comes together. And in this episode we are talking about the Netflix documentary. It's Biggie. I got a story to tell and it's been out for at least maybe two years on Netflix. I'm thinking, and what I love about this documentary. Of course, any documentary with Biggie will talk about his death, but this one did not focus on that aspect of his life. It spent a lot of time talking about his upbringing, his influences and his friends and, of course, you get to see some of what was happening as he was going through preteen to teen, to being Biggie the rapper superstar and then, obviously, to his untimely death. And so we wanted to talk about this because, again, respect due to those who put together this documentary, because it was so insightful and, yeah, let's kick it off. So, michaela.
Speaker 2:We can't ignore the fact that by the time this comes out it's going to be on or around his birthday. So you know, we live in the Northeast area, you live in Brooklyn, so it's kind of like I feel like we celebrate in March and then we celebrate again in May. So it's almost like he gets two celebrations for the death anniversary in March and then his birthday. So I'm sure there's always something happening in Brooklyn for those two dates. That are like unofficial hip hop holidays, if you will. So I love the documentary. You and I have watched it probably multiple times and we both really enjoyed the perspective that it really gave and I kind of shared on Style and Vibes when it did release that. You know the people them should watch it because it really dives deep into his roots and how he became this amazing talented rapper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the nerd in me categorize Minuets. So the first thing that I think is important is that we talk about the filming and how what's the word I'm looking for how his friend Damon and they all had that forethought, that trailblazing mindset to document everything that they were doing, because the basis of Biggie I've got a story to tell is archival footage of their home videos Basically Damon's home videos recording every single thing that they did. It was literally I got a camcorder, I'm just going to use it, just to use it, and that sets the basis of the documentary and the recording, the continuous recording. At the time, how I don't want to say genius, but it was. It was something about where they were, maybe the excitement of new money, this new life that made them think about it. But it's also in those simple moments where you're like they weren't thinking, like this is going to be important five, 10 years from now. They were just like yo, let's just do this. Like they, they didn't think ahead.
Speaker 2:So your thoughts on the filming I think that in them filming we got to remember the time the early 90s is when camcorders really got smaller and a little bit more compact and people were able to kind of almost like how we would equate a smartphone in the 2000s or I'm now dating myself a Blackberry in terms of just being having access to, like you know, the form of content.
Speaker 2:So it was cheap enough for people to buy and easy easy enough access for them them. It was also probably a way for them to kind of record and remember very similar to like how we document on social media now, like the events that we go to and what we do from a personal perspective. Camcorders were really a way to kind of document what you were doing with your friends at that time and you would play back the video when you were kind of just hanging out doing nothing, to kind of like laugh. So I think that that was probably the intent. The foresight probably wasn't really there, but because they were able to kind of save all of the fun stuff that they fun, I'm sure, crazy stuff that they did on the road. We only probably got to see a small fraction of what was captured during that time, in that era and I loved how they kind of mixed in the footage as well as commentary from those who were in his life from that era.
Speaker 1:Also, you know, another point on the filming that we talked about was, you know, at one point in the documentary Damon said that.
Speaker 1:You know, at some point along the way Biggie became self-aware of the need to document because he would ask Damon to make sure he had enough tapes. Tapes, right. And we remember that part of the documentary when Damon said that Biggie directed him to tape the show and keep the camera on the audience because he wanted to see the reaction of the audience, so he knew how to put together his set. It's literally like a sports team who's watching the replay of a game and they're analyzing the game so that they know what to do with the opposing team. So that, in and of itself, was just hearing him say that he wanted to know which songs would get like a reaction. You know, at some point in the documentary Biggie would tell the crowd to say hey to Damon with the camera. So when he's like hey, they were like, oh, you know in the camera. So him like paying attention to the audience and just, you know, looking for that interaction was part of the reason why his shows were very good, because he was editing his set after each show Moving on.
Speaker 1:We want to go to Jamaica, and I I mean every time we talk about Jamaica. Some people try Kung Fu. They say Jamaicans want to take everything, but it is undeniable the influence Jamaica has on hip hop regardless, but on Biggie specifically. His mom is Jamaican and in the documentary she talked about. Every summer she saved up money to go to Jamaica, which which is life right. Every Caribbean kid knows what it's like. Every summer you're going to get sent back home. It's just how it went right. Which friend was it? The one in the black hoodie was just like he would come back from Jamaica with all of these Jamaican slangs and music that was new to them. Because, michaela, you know, in Jamaica everything play up already, jamaica everything. That's why we know the Kenny Rogers, we know all of the country artists, because that's what, and I guess, being also in Chilani, which is considered a more rural parish back then, yananga have a lot happening, so it's radio and party that's going to keep, you know, the crowd entertaining. Do you remember anything else about the influence of Jamaica?
Speaker 2:Oh, there was a lot, I think you know they even probably only touched on a fraction of it. I love how they went back and spoke with his grandmother, his uncle Dave, and really captured, like the family home back in Trelawney and really talking about how he used to go to parties with his uncle and he would be singing and Christopher they never call him Biggie, they call him Christopher Did I tour with him, uncle, and at that time he's young, you know what I mean. So he's able to one creatively do whatever he wants because he doesn't know anybody necessarily there, but he also is not about to get on the microphone and disappoint his uncle. I'm sure I think we would have loved footage from that era even. But you could even hear and understand the cadence of what he was talking about.
Speaker 2:Even your comment about wanting to see how the crowd reacted to the song, that call and response is something that is very specific to what was happening at the time in terms of toasting and selectors playing music and people jumping on the microphone. That was something that he had seen and then took that and kind of emulated that same kind of behavior. Additionally, the amount of variety in terms of his style. I remember a specific point where Diddy said you know, he didn't really rap, he really had melody first and it was very R&B. He wrote like an R&B artist but he flowed like an MC and even like his cadence. And even like his cadence, I think the reason why he was so different, because there were other Jamaican artists who became rappers earlier than him. You got to think about like Heavy D.
Speaker 2:KRS-One, krs-one there's a number of them, they just slipped my mind. But what was so different about Biggie specifically was his cadence and his ability to switch cadences within one rhyme. He had so many different flows and he was one of the first to do that at that particular time and it really inspired, generated, and now we take it for granted, right, we hear it all the time in the music. So in some cases it's become standard and I listened to like a Nicki Minaj. Nicki Minaj really does that so well, like creatively. You can hear her doing so many different patterns, like she'll do like five to 10 different flows in one song and I don't think she gets enough credit. But I think she really draws on that inspiration from listening to Biggie specifically. And then she's of Caribbean descent, but you see how that has transcended and now that's somewhat of a hip hop standard to be considered a good MC.
Speaker 2:I mean, standards have changed but I'm just saying like, from my perspective, I think a lot more people are doing that now and there are just so many things we could say and I like that they didn't give it just one spotlight, they kind of kept going back to Jamaica. Jamaica was a heavy reference throughout the entire documentary, heavy reference throughout the entire documentary. When he was alive I don't think you necessarily got to understand the impact that it had on him. But I think through the eyes of this documentary we kind of see stylistically and even like Mr C rest in peace, you know, he really, you know, brought that to the forefront as well, seeing how that kind of played out. I think it was. I love that it didn't just have one part of the story. It really embodied who he was as a rapper and they really treated his homage to Jamaica really well.
Speaker 1:You said about Mr C and Mr C said he's not sure Biggie understood his Jamaican roots. With the DJs, toasting and the braggadocious that is part of DJ and toasting and just naturally being a Jamaican right. And of course Biggie doesn't understand it because it's natural, it's second nature. You grew up in a house where this is just how you behave, so it's natural, it's second nature. You grew up in a house where this is just how you behave, so it's natural you don't learn to harness that cultural DNA until later, if ever. Because you just said this is just normal stuff.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that Biggie so we're getting into his musical influences, one of the things that he had said he was like he likes singing, like he was like stylistics and dramatics and he liked the old school. So when I think of musical influences, the way Busta was influenced by Papa San and Lieutenant Stitchy in terms of their speed in DJing, you could almost hear in Biggie. You know he liked the sound of a tennis saw right, because tennis saw is like singing right, but he's not quite DJing and you have different artists in a similar pocket. Back in the day you had a Josie Wales you had, you know, like the person who's coming to mind Wake the Town. You know like that type of singing but talking and you know like so there were so many Damn, I cannot remember me big big music nerd can't remember.
Speaker 2:Now the same thing just happened to me. The name just fly out of your brain.
Speaker 1:I know It'll come back to me, it's Theragraph Anyway. So you know all those musical influences just combined and like, like you said, you know he's listening to country rock, christian, you know, growing up in Jamaica you had Bossa Nova playing on Sunday. Jamaica, you had Bossa Nova playing on Sunday. And again, when you grew up in the country, radio is all you have and party with DJ at tours and people going on the mic. That's what you had in that era growing up. So his musical influences. And then he talked about writing from elementary school, you know, according to his friends, and they talked about when they went and recorded this demo and you heard him flow over the demo. But there was, I think, one of the things that really captured his influence as an artist, not just musically, was when the jazz artist, the sax player's his name, donald.
Speaker 1:Harrison that, yeah, donald Harrison yeah yeah, he lived on the block and how he for a while, when he used to see Biggie, he's like scooped him up and said come on. And he's like, after a while that wouldn't work but the idea that you know, he took him to the movies, he took him to MoMA, introduced, introduced him to Picasso and he talked about this drummer. I don't remember if he said he introduced Biggie to the drummer, but he was like it's not in any particular rhythm or cadence and then at one point they overlaid the rap to the drum sequence and it was just like this is crazy. So, as music nerds, you know that was just fascinating to see.
Speaker 2:I think the other thing and I really kind of understood it the second time around is really the relationship with his mother and even, to a degree, the lack of his father, and I think you got to understand what their relationship was before he became Biggie Smalls, while he was Biggie Smalls and almost like post-death, what their relationship is, and I think that it's so interesting, right, it's funny. She just embodies all the things of an old school Caribbean mom where she's very strict. She's very strict. She doesn't make it come in and talk to her anywhere, anywhere, and even in death he can't get.
Speaker 2:hey, wait, she's still at the same she said I never thought I would be so upset with a dead person, you know, and I was just like yes, yes, and I think consensusly, like if you, if you've ever heard anyone speak about miss wallace and everybody call Miss Wallace, you know that is like the consensus, like she don't play, she's like no nonsense. And it's just interesting that you know he had, I guess, because you know he's a latchkey kid, you know his mom is working, so he kind of took to this lifestyle that he didn't necessarily need to take on because it was what was cool and what was interesting. So he got exposed to a lot and he saw a vision for luxuriousness right, he saw it in front of him but he couldn't reach it. Luxuriousness right, he saw it in front of him but he couldn't reach it. And I just feel like the drug game was the way for him to kind of get there easy.
Speaker 2:So he goes from Picasso to the corner, so it's like he sees that entire picture and I think you kind of get that between his first and the second project. That's kind of the full spectrum that you get, because Ready to Die is a darker album than Life After Death. I think it's interesting from an analysis standpoint, the breadth of who he was and what he saw. It's like what he saw in front of him versus the vision that he saw, and it almost seems like he was always trying to connect those two.
Speaker 1:So before I forget, I remember it's you right, you know, say wouldn't have stopped annoying me. But at one point in the documentary Damon was like he was looking at Biggie dressing in like three-piece suits because they went to a private school with Herbert Sam, which is the friend who said as children of immigrants they were well aware that their parents came with aspirations and the pressure from that right, but he wanted to be like Damon. Damon was like yo, I want to wear uniforms like y'all, because you know that's the life other than what's out here. And he thought the grass was greener on the other side. His other friends were getting into things and as I was watching it, it's easy to say a parent went wrong. Nobody would ever say Miss Wallets went wrong, other than trusting our child when him say X, y and Z, right, but the influences that a child sees, you know which they're seeing more than their working parent, is a very strong influence when the community was trying to help, as in um, the jazz artist, mr donald, yeah, and other people that could only have that pull for so long. And so you see the tension with he's seeing the streets, it's calling him and they're all doing whatever their can. Even his friends are like, no, you don't want this life. Everybody's like no, you don't want this life. And still he chooses that life and it's not until really the death of and I mean there were so many moments where he was it could have gone really left right, but in watching it it was like yo, parents do the best they can, the community do the best them can, the friends were doing the best they could not to get him in the life, but he still, at the end of the day, he still had choice and he made a choice. Even if you didn't like it and if you judged him, he still made a choice, didn't like it, and if you judged him, he still made a choice.
Speaker 1:Um, and that was very interesting to kind of just soak in like there's still choice. And you know as much as it pains me as a mom, looking because you have boys, pains me to think that boy. You know you go through all of this and you know I think miss wallace, maybe from and you know I think Miss Wallace, maybe from her perspective, you should train him up the way he should grow and at some point hope, say him, navigate back to it, even the man in the record shop when he said yo me just drive, i'ma sit him upon the block, i'ma just scoot them up, i'ma just go upon the belt. Everybody just wanted them to stay off the road, if that makes sense, right? And I thought that was just really, really fascinating, because if you didn't hear these personal stories, you would just feel like he was just left to his devices. And you hear that that wasn't the case.
Speaker 2:And even to a degree he understood, he tried to separate Christopher Wallace, who he was as an individual, to his mom and protect the image that his mom had of him for as long as he could. So he consciously knew that I shouldn't be doing this, but because I want the, whatever it is that I think that this is going to bring me, I'm going to pursue it anyway. And it's not until he has this brush with potential death that he essentially decides to move in a different direction. But I mean, he's still moving pretty similar, you know, like he has a different inspiration and he he gets a different gusto for rapping and and using that as his creative, but he's still in the streets while he, you know is is essentially signed and not really seeing any money, um, so I think that you know that's also a thing too.
Speaker 1:Like you said, biggie's relationship with his mom, miss Wallace. I love Miss Wallace. I remember a couple of years ago on MTV, ananda Lewis was interviewing her and she asked to pick which artist she prefer, right, and Cheva mother went upon it cheva aka must arrives, right. So they so both of them were on there, these two women with thick jamaican accents. And then they were like I don't remember the show they were supposed to be picking and, um, they asked her which song. She said you know my prejudice. You know my prejudice, you know, because this is a very old school Jamaican thing. When she means she prejudiced, she meant that, you know, she had a bias, really in Caribbean parlance, right. So I think she either picked the Puffy sangha or something, but so very Jamaican.
Speaker 1:But also because it was just them, a relationship that they just understood. For instance, when the mother friend said oh, I listened to Christopher album and the profanity. And then she confronts him about the profanity and he's she said to him, said ma, you're not supposed to be listening to this, this is not for anybody over 35. And she said oh, and she said I'm not listening to it because my son told me not to listen to it, said I'm not listening to it because my son told me not to listen to it so I'm not listening to it.
Speaker 1:And somebody might say, boy, if your son had create this all like she was just like I'm not gonna kill up myself may I make him live him life. And if he said she also wanted to protect the peace of her relationship with him, to to a certain degree, like what's the point of having this cantankerous and contentious relationship if, even if she talked to him about it, he's not going to change? So him said don't listen to it, me not gonna listen to it and keep moving. So big up to Miss Wallace for being that Jamaican mom who was, just like me, mean business. But you know he move over here, I'm over here I'm over.
Speaker 2:Here I'm over here.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I just thought that this was a more personal story and it was refreshing to see, outside of speculation on who shot him, what happened the day before or leading up to the time he died. It was just good to see not only his connection to his Jamaican culture but the relationship he had with his family, his mother and his friends and how they all knew like the same the life. But this is what we got to do and how they kind of pull themselves through that you know, yeah, I'm sure like for them.
Speaker 2:You know, I think D rock had mentioned that he's just like I couldn't even believe that. This was like when your friend gets famous and they, they kind of have this admiration. He couldn't even believe it himself. He's like I just see, you know, and they kind of have this admiration. He couldn't even believe it himself. He's like I just see Biggie as his friend and so to see how people respond to him from a fan perspective is probably still very interesting to them, because they just know the relationship.
Speaker 2:We miss them as fans, we miss them musically. There's always the conversation of what would have been right, but for them they have this personal connection to him where they're constantly reminded of his presence. I mean, if you walk anywhere in New York, or specifically in Brooklyn, I'm sure you hear his voice and see him on a mural or someone quoting him in just everyday conversations, seeing his face on t-shirts and stuff like that. So there's this constant reminder that one he had such a huge presence but he's also missing from their lives and I think that that's what the documentary actually really brought across really well is the relationships that he had with people prior to his connection to bad boy and his artistry.
Speaker 2:Until then we really didn't get to see that. So it's not like there were heavy documentaries. There weren't a lot of interviews, even seeing him in the unsigned hype, the Source. Those are things that just don't happen anymore, and if you don't document them in this style, you won't necessarily know that they happen or that they exist. So I love that his family is really keeping his legacy going by putting out projects like this and really promoting. I feel like every other year we get something new from his estate.
Speaker 1:Essentially, so what I learned from this documentary was why he went from Biggie Smalls to Notorious BIG. He was doing the interview I think he was in London and he was like yo. The other Biggie Smalls said he's going to sue me if I keep using the name Biggie Smalls, so from now on I'm Notorious BIG. And I was just like I didn't even know that, you know. So you know him on this archival footage saying that was like I didn't realize that I was like yo, biggie Smalls, biggie Smalls. And then he was Notorious BIG. It's like those little nuggets in the documentary was just like oh okay, you know, even when he was recording the Ready to Die he even said like I wasn't going to kill myself but his mother had breast cancer. You know they got signed. Even Damon was like his song's playing on the radio but we still out here on the corner Like all these things are happening. And he was just like yo because it's rooted in a certain level of anger and angst, particularly on that album.
Speaker 2:And he had some fun tracks on that one too. But I think you got to really understand why he was in that space to record that album and then why he was in the space he was to record Life After Death, because those albums are both classics but in completely different ways and while his flow and his cadence and his lyricism is still there, he's talking in a completely different manner in both of those projects. It's so different, so night and day. It really helps us to understand the artistry around a project and what they are into. And now artists release singles and projects are released in shorter time spans. But you really got to understand the frame of mind that he was in and I really, really enjoyed that aspect of understanding. It made sense. Yeah, I wasn't going to kill myself, but I felt that intense about what was happening in my life. That that's how it came across in music and for a lot of people who grew up during that time they could relate and a lot of people who go back and listen can still relate.
Speaker 1:So along that vein, when he was doing Life After Death, he was like the Diana Ross, I'm coming out. He was like was like yo, I like that joint. I went to a club and everybody just went to the dance floor and he was like yo, that's what I want. He's like I'm not trying to go out here, try to shoot somebody so I could put that on an album like that's not where I am right, I want to you know.
Speaker 2:And then, in full of lyrics with him, chain and the versace and all of that like I was just like.
Speaker 1:Oh, my god, I saw the influence of the uncle car when the uncle put on him shoes and tie up on his crib, knee, toe, tie, everything with it I'm like, yeah, all the little phone all start both at the little on the side, and they have the little pin on it but also there was another part in there that I cracked up and again you would miss it, but the Jamaican Caribbean person in me caught it Like he was saying something, like his mom kicked him out and so he's not upset with his mom.
Speaker 1:If his mom was sick or I don't remember what it was and he was like what I would say no mom gonna make your own tea. And I fell out laughing because a Caribbean mom, they want tea. So he's like no mom gonna make your own tea. And I was just like oh my God, miss Wallace and her tea.
Speaker 2:What am I gonna do with that pig mail Love?
Speaker 1:God, exactly Right. But again, because it's so normalized, he grew up in a house with a Jamaican mom and they're very Jamaican things like I do now. I do it now to my son, ethan, ethan, going to make me some tea. Ethan knows how to make tea so I thought that was like you know, and he was laughing because he knew him gets a not regular for going to make tea. So to me that was that's funny, funny and that's what I like about it. So we gave you a lot. You could still watch it and enjoy it. You'd probably find your own little nuggets, um, because this is biggie, you know, full disclosure, holy pop, profanity in other song, them. So you know, um, and and throughout the video. But but it's an interesting watch and learned a lot and took a lot from that and I say, yeah, you know, give it a watch, biggie. I got a story to tell and you know what caught my eye the placeholder image in Netflix. You see a young Biggie with a Jamaican flag behind him.
Speaker 2:You're like, wait, what is it? Oh gosh, yeah, now I gotta go look for it, but I think I just saw the preview.
Speaker 1:I was watching it on the TV and I just happened to see it, because if you search it, you see young him when he was younger, and the Jamaican flag behind him. So I was just like, oh, what is so? That's what pulled me in. I mean, the Jamaican flag is one of the more recognizable flag because the colors in there aren't the typical colors in most flags. All right, reels and rhythms, massive and crew. That's what we're calling it now, because reels and rhythms, massive and crew, yes, that's what we're calling them Massive and crew. That's it for this episode of the show.
Speaker 1:If you watched it, let us know. Oh, by the way, you can text us. Yes, you can text us, but I've learned. So if you are listening to this, right, if you're on YouTube, you can text me, but you can comment and we'll, you know, reply accordingly if the comment is appropriate. But if you're listening, text me. But you can comment and we'll reply accordingly if the comment is appropriate. But if you're listening to it, you can send us a text in the show notes. You'll see, send us a text and you click on that. It opens up in your phone app and you could send us a message. You cannot send us voice notes and if you send us a message, unfortunately we can't reply back. You cannot send us voice notes, and if you send us a message, unfortunately we can't reply back. Right, we can see it. So, yes, me discover that after the fact. So if you send us a message, we don't know what number, so don't send a message, just send me a big up and put your name on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Send a little thing and just put your name on it, say hello, auntie. We love to hear from you. So, um, also let us know if there's a particular show you want us to talk about and review. We'd welcome that too. So want to hear from you and until next time, massive and cool. Later liquor, more bye, more WAPT, bye.