This episode features Rachel Osborn from Julie Mango TV. Together, we unpack the compelling British anthology "Small Axe," which chronicles the West Indian community's stories in London during the 1960s to 1980s. The conversation goes beyond the screen to dissect the critical need for spaces that amplify Caribbean voices in film, and we delve into the symbiosis of global Black liberation movements, highlighting the poignant themes that resonate through time.
Rachel lends her expertise on the challenges "Small Axe" faced in bridging the gap between the UK and international audiences, emphasizing the crucial roles behind the scenes that push for a more inclusive media landscape.
Concluding with a look forward, we share our collective aspiration to see the Caribbean film industry flourish, recognizing the role of streaming services in catapulting regional and diaspora cinema to the forefront. This podcast aims not only to celebrate Caribbean narratives but also to serve as a call to action, encouraging the support and recognition these stories rightly deserve. Stay tuned for the continuation of this rich dialogue with Rachel's return, as we further analyze the cultural significance and future of Caribbean cinema.
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A Breadfruit Media Production
This episode features Rachel Osborn from Julie Mango TV. Together, we unpack the compelling British anthology "Small Axe," which chronicles the West Indian community's stories in London during the 1960s to 1980s. The conversation goes beyond the screen to dissect the critical need for spaces that amplify Caribbean voices in film, and we delve into the symbiosis of global Black liberation movements, highlighting the poignant themes that resonate through time.
Rachel lends her expertise on the challenges "Small Axe" faced in bridging the gap between the UK and international audiences, emphasizing the crucial roles behind the scenes that push for a more inclusive media landscape.
Concluding with a look forward, we share our collective aspiration to see the Caribbean film industry flourish, recognizing the role of streaming services in catapulting regional and diaspora cinema to the forefront. This podcast aims not only to celebrate Caribbean narratives but also to serve as a call to action, encouraging the support and recognition these stories rightly deserve. Stay tuned for the continuation of this rich dialogue with Rachel's return, as we further analyze the cultural significance and future of Caribbean cinema.
Connect with us:
A Breadfruit Media Production
On this episode of Reels and Rhythms we are tuned into part one of a two-part series on Small Acts which originally appeared on Stylin Vibes Hot gas. In today's episode we are talking about the British anthology film series Small Acts. Today I'm joined by special guest Rachel Osborn of Julie Mangold TV, so my conversation with Rachel is really long. We talked about so many different things as it relates to Small Acts that we had to break it up into two episodes. So if you like, if you love this episode, then you'll love our next episode where we dive into the Lovers Rock part of this series. So this one we're kind of just doing an overview of the entire series, the rollout etc. And then the next one we'll dive really in at a music thing. So for this episode and the next one you'll hear Rachel of Julie Mangold TV. So I hope you enjoy. Let's get right into it. Welcome, rachel Osborn of Julie Mangold TV.
Speaker 1:Julie Mangold TV is a platform and lifestyle hub championing on-screen Caribbean storytelling. Violet Rachel, you know, give her own overview of the team as soon as we kind of get into this topic. So Rachel is an aficionado when it comes to all things Caribbean film. So I know Small Acts came out a little while ago, but I still think the conversation is really relevant, especially from a diaspora perspective. So I invited Rachel on to the podcast today so we can talk, and you guys are in for a treat because we are going to be talking about Small Acts over the next two episodes. So this one, we're going to kind of overview the project, and then the next one we're going to get into, you know, one of my favorites in the series and we're going to dive deep into the Lovers Rock episode. So welcome, rachel, hi, thank you. So first of all, tell us a little bit about you and why you started Julie Mangold TV.
Speaker 2:Okay, this story so Julie Mangold started as an idea last year because I was doing some research on film criticism and just to see how it played out in a Caribbean context and of course, there was not a lot. So, first of all, film criticism is very white male. Then I started digging deep into who are the black critics and I found a lot of black critics in North America, but they were focusing on Hollywood film, right. So there's no one place where it was all about just Caribbean film. The, the blogs and the different websites and platforms that you see for Caribbean entertainment. Those platforms are heavily music focused, because music moves a little bit faster, there's a lot more things to write about. So, although they may cover some film and some culture, they really focused heavily on music and I'm like okay, I think that there will be value in creating a space where it's just for film, so that when filmmakers are working on their publicity for their projects, they have at least one place where they can go to say, okay, this is dedicated to my audience, an audience that I know is already interested in Caribbean film. Because it's hard as a filmmaker with no budget when marketing kind of is like the end kind of afterthought sometimes because you don't even have. When you spend all most of your budget on making a film, it's hard for filmmakers to then say, okay, I'm going to invest into a publicist, right. So yes, they can reach out to the cleaner if they're in Jamaica. Yes, they can reach out to loop if they're across the Caribbean Observer Star, all of those but there isn't any dedicated space.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to create a dedicated space for filmmakers and that's how Julie Mango came to be. It's kind of like a cheeky play on rotten tomatoes, because rotten tomatoes is also very like rotten, like actually rotten. But I'm like something sweet. Julie Mango, you know my favorite, so that's where the name came from, because I was just like something like this, but not so heavy on the criticism, because the thing that we want to focus on in Julie Mango is talking about the cultural aspects behind the film. So if you go on the site right now, for example, if you look at the interview that I did with an educator in Jamaica about the flight short film, we talked a lot about like STEM in Jamaica. So science, technology, I think, engineering and mathematics, how STEM plays out for children in prep school or primary school in Jamaica. So we're really looking at, like, the culture behind the film and not just saying watch this film, don't watch it. You know what I mean, just having a deeper conversation about the things that we cover.
Speaker 1:That is awesome and definitely needed, so I love the mission and you've kind of been in this content creation and e-com space for a while, so you have a really good understanding yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a trained journalist.
Speaker 1:See that should train people should train for the team?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I went all the way around in my career and then came back here to really using that skill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's important too. It's a journey for you and now I think Caribbean filmmakers are doing a lot of work that isn't necessarily highlighted. You know, I was really excited about this project. There have been a number of Jamaican films that have, you know, done similarly, crossed over into the market, but this one felt a little bit bigger, it felt a little deeper. So, for those of you who are not familiar, small Axe is a British anthology series, film series created and directed by Stephen McQueen. So he actually has Caribbean roots.
Speaker 2:I believe it's Grenada and I don't remember exactly what history is about. I know it's Grenada.
Speaker 1:It's Grenada and another Caribbean island. So the anthology has five films that kind of tell distinct stories around the West Indian community, specifically in London, and it kind of spans over the 1960s to the 1980s. So the series actually premiered at Cannes Film Festival and then got picked up by BBC and then on Amazon Prime. So you and I both watched on Amazon Prime when it did yes. So the five films and I'll kind of go over each. So there's Mangrove, which is about the Mangrove restaurant and the trial of the Mangrove Nine. So that has a bit more of a historical reference timepiece.
Speaker 1:Lovers Rock, which is like a Lovers story centered around the social scene of end music. Lovers Rock, red, white and Blue, which is about a black officer, leeward Logan, who became the first black police officer in London. Alex Weedle, who is now a novelist, kind of sharing his story and how he kind of came up before he became an author. And then education was it's really fictional, but really the idea of the educational system, of what black people in London really faced during that timeframe, and all with a West Indian diaspora backdrop. So tell me, when you first kind of saw this coming out, essentially what were your initial thoughts?
Speaker 2:Well, I was excited because it's Steve McQueen. You kind of already have an expectation that this is going to be good, because we know him from 12 years a slave widow, some other projects and his name carries that way. So you're like, okay, you know that money is going to be behind this project. Because I think what we're seeing a lot, although there are so many Caribbean films coming out right now, audiences just aren't getting a chance to see them because they go to film festivals and then you might not see them for a while or they might end up in one of the Caribbean streamers. But with something like this, you already knew from you started seeing buzz about it, especially since they had that deal with BBC that it was going to be something big, although we still have some of that like access issues when it comes to people outside of North America and the UK seeing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was one of the things that I had realized initially. So I'm thinking, you know, amazon Prime, it should be available to everywhere that has Amazon Prime. And actually one of my good friends and fellow podcast is Odessa. She's just like I can't watch it because I'm in Jamaica and I'm just what do you mean? She's just like it's not here in Jamaica so we can't even watch it. And she was, you know, kind of bummed because she grew up in London. I really wanted to, you know, see it. I'm not sure if it's available now, but at the time where they were kind of doing that large push around it, I think what kind of drew me in is really the title Small Axe. You know it's a reference to a Bob Marley. It's a reference to a Bob Marley song. You know, small Axe, chop Big Tree and you know it's kind of that reference around the importance of, you know, togetherness in the culture and how you know we might be a small axe but we still can't chop big tree, yeah.
Speaker 2:And we already know we have that power as a region.
Speaker 1:Right, right. And what was different to me about this series is it didn't focus just on Jamaican culture, it was very Caribbean, like holistic Caribbean, inclusive, and that really speaks to that Windrush generation of being, you know, going to England from different islands and kind of having that unique experience. And I think it's very similar to Brooklyn, specifically, but a lot of the other pockets outside of the major cities, in the diaspora they're very like specific island you know pockets, whereas London really had that mix of all of the Caribbean islands and you really got to see how you know it played out together and it reminded me a lot of roots and not in the same vein but in terms of importance. I think it's the first time that we're really seeing the Caribbean diaspora experience in this magnitude. So for me it was super exciting just to see the promo and I was equally so engaged in the entire series.
Speaker 2:So the thing that I think, too about the importance and I'm glad you brought up the Windrush, because there's a scandal right now, or there was a scandal around that time where I mean I think it started around 2012, but where people who because we have to remember that the Windrush generation were invited by the government of the UK to essentially build a country and do specific kind of jobs and I think that's where some of the friction comes in so people are being sent back now or deported is like how can you deport a citizen? Right, you brought these people here and you gave them citizenship and still in I think this was in 2020 we're still seeing issues where Jamaica and specifically we're getting sent back to Jamaica. I don't remember doing much research on whether or not it was because they did something in terms of because you know they, they deport people because of crimes, but I don't think that was case.
Speaker 1:Well, they had a lot to do with lack of paperwork. So essentially they they were there, and not in every case, but in a lot of them, because there there was no official paperwork outside of this agreement. Right, a lot of people who were there were undocumented and they say that with air quotes, but some of them they are, they have proper documentation. So it's like really fuzzy. Like, if you think about what is happening in the US with immigration and what happened with the previous administration, a lot of that is what is kind of still happening a bit in the UK and we both don't live in the UK, so don't come for us. We don't know all of the details, them, but essentially the point is they're wrongfully deporting. You know Caribbean yeah, people are Caribbean descent back to Ireland.
Speaker 2:The timing, the timing of small acts, is good, because after hearing about those things in the news, you get to see a different side of the conversation, to see like that, even when they just came, although they were invited, they were treated wrongly and they still are being treated wrong. So I think that's kind of the thing, the point that I was trying to make, where it's just like it's still relevant. All of the films, I think, including education, all of them are so relevant and so that kind of stood out to me to in terms of timing.
Speaker 1:And especially because, you know, in a time where we were doing so much protesting around Black Lives Matter A lot of you know the police, you know interactions with people of color and black people specifically and the struggles around racism I think it was it was super important to really.
Speaker 1:I'm really big on the idea of the black experience not being singular to just the US, so I think it really gave a complete understanding of the black experience in a country that is not US based.
Speaker 1:We often hear you know a lot of the stories which are super relevant, but we don't always get to hear the stories from other countries London, portugal, france, we hear you know Nigeria, india, brazil, like all of these things are really coming to head in 2020 specifically. So this really kind of capped off the year with an additional black experience, understanding of racism coming up through the years, because I think sometimes a lot of the stories in the media are very US focused and we get those stories in abundance without understanding the lack of complexities around the other experiences globally and a lot of what happens in the US really does impact the rest of the globe, just from an inspiration perspective and understanding perspective. And we saw that especially within the first episode on mangrove. So you know they talked about the Black Panther movement. You know in that episode and how Leticia writes character, you know she started that chapter there, inspired by what was happening in the US. So we're way more connected in this black liberation struggle globally than we kind of are set to proceed.
Speaker 2:For sure, because even here in Canada, during all the black lives, matter stuff last year is when I really realized, like how here, although we like to think that Canada is so multicultural because that's the marketing, the publicity that the country wants us to believe the racism is here too. There were protests or there were chapters of BLM here, and there were incidents here that I probably wouldn't have paid as much attention to if not the for the environment. That last year was kind of the landscape, that it was where it's just like we're hypersensitive to all of these issues now and they're getting more attention because it's just crazy outside.
Speaker 1:All right, so we've kind of discussed. You know a little bit about the whole entire project. We were both very disappointed at the accessibility piece, Just because you know, as diaspora kids and needing to continuously bridge that gap between the region and the diaspora, the diaspora not having access to the films, really it was a missed opportunity because essentially we missed the opportunity to connect the diaspora with the, with the region. So tell me, tell me, what are your thoughts around that?
Speaker 2:So I did some research just to make sure that I knew what I was talking about, because at first I was just like why? Because this is the thing that I've been seeing with, like, netflix is and Amazon's and those people, those streaming services, right. But then there's an added layer of complexity for small acts in particular, because Steve McQueen actually said in an interview that he wanted the BBC to be involved. So he partnered with them for distribution and even production, because he wanted it to be accessible to people in the UK, not necessarily have to go to a theatre to see this or put it on another streaming services. So it being on BBC meant that his mother could watch it on her TV, right. And in his words he said he wanted to go where people are, and the thing about that is you're going where I guess your main target audience is people in the UK who can really get a feel for this experience, but the rest of us care too. That's the part where it kind of gets dicey, because even the fact that they were able to show at New York Film Festival, they had to get permission from BBC, based on an interview that I watched. So you have to get permission to do that, and then Amazon ends up having limited rights to just North America. So that is why people in France, people in Ireland, couldn't see it and Ireland's right there People all over the world.
Speaker 2:I was looking on Twitter people asking, adding Amazon, and asking why can't I see this? But I saw one that said they only have the US rights, and I understand that. Like for the average viewer, who is not in the industry and doesn't necessarily know all the ins and outs of distribution and all of that stuff, it might seem unfair because it's just like I'm paying the same 999 or 1299 as this person, but I can't access because you think you are. You have a service, that's one service, right, you are signing up for a service that I should be able to see this. But then the complexities of how distribution actually works in I'm going to say Hollywood, even though we're talking about the UK, in fact, those large systems is the reason why people can't see things in certain places, and we saw this with Sprinter as well. So because even in Canada, we didn't get to see small acts right away either. They had actually scheduled it for 2021 for Canada, but then there was a big uproar why we couldn't see it. So somebody did something something happening or something and we were able to see it up think about a week or two after it released in the US.
Speaker 2:So there's all of these things that go into the accessibility, but it's actually an issue that I think it's a larger issue that needs to be addressed.
Speaker 2:And the thing is, I don't know who's going to address it, because the thing is, they will say on Netflix, if you go on their website and you go to their help center and say, okay, why can't I see this in my country, they'll be like oh well, it's based on tastes and blah, blah, blah. Like they have all these wonderful explanations for why you can't see something somewhere and they have a whole like Latin America and Caribbean division. Who's supposed to be looking after our tastes? But when I went on LinkedIn to see who's on this team, it's all Latin American folk. There really isn't anyone in any of these large organizations that specifically are looking for the Caribbean. So we could say, oh yeah, it's just distribution rights. It's complex. There are all these things and you can only get rights to this and that, but there's a bigger issue where it's just like no one's really going to bat for us. When it comes to these things, no one is.
Speaker 1:We definitely need someone on the inside to kind of push for it. And we've seen it with music. Like you know, bungee garland music doesn't end up on the NBA for no reason. You know. It's not because they sometimes it is. You know they're looking, but sometimes it is an inside person who says let's try this or let's do this or there's a market for this and let's. You know that's where the diversity and inclusion is. And then the next thing that we actually have been is we need to. Just as much as we are in front, we need to be behind doing the business sides. So you know, if you're interested in filmmaking, there are other. You know you can be in the industry without being a director or writer or actor, because there are so many different options in things that we need behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that I mean the Caribbean market. I think if you're thinking on a business level, they might see all the Caribbean is just a small market. It's tiny, they don't really spend a lot of money. Because that's a conversation that I heard about music to, where I was in one of these clubhouse things where they were talking about the music industry and why, why certain things are not spotify and why the list that spotify makes a lot of money, and so you know, the things that I'm talking about, dan saw, are the way they are. They don't include a lot of people is because you know they're actually, although it's Caribbean, they're actually doing these things?
Speaker 2:for the US UK market, because that's where the money is going to be the championing of our for our audiences. I know that it's going to be a long haul because our market is small when it comes to dollars and cents.
Speaker 1:And I haven't really hear you in terms of this, the small market it's, it's like the chicken and the audience has to, you know, want the content, pay for the content and, most importantly, and there needs to be, you know, someone behind the scenes really taking an interest on involving the culture and like, like you said, there are a lot of great films that are coming out of the Caribbean and this I think, hopefully could be a catalyst to more at least straight to TV kind of distribution.
Speaker 1:It's much more challenging to pack a theater because even when Sprinter, which was backed by overbrook entertainment, I think, which is Will and Jada's company, like, I remember buying tickets for a local showing of that and they had to cancel because a lot of there wasn't, there wasn't enough sales for that particular theater and it usually boils down to the same cluster diaspora spaces Miami, new York, dc and maybe LA. Maybe you know Houston, if we're lucky, it's specific to the US. I'm sure Toronto was on that list too as well, but we definitely see that that challenge as a whole. So, while the stories are important, it's important that the audience really supports the stories that are being told when they are told. So if you have access and you haven't watched it. Please watch it, because that will help you know the interest level of executives behind the scenes like, okay, what's our next small acts?
Speaker 2:essentially Right, and I think the thing with that, specifically in terms of, like, audiences watching, it's such a double-edged thing, because a lot of reasons why audiences don't watch is because there isn't enough marketing dollars behind these films, right? So when titles come out, people don't even know. So it's like people, this is the cycle, right? People Kusun said there's not enough Caribbean film, right. So then Kusun then said, oh, there's not enough, there's nothing to watch. Then when something comes out, something comes out, but they don't hear about it. So they're like, oh, again, there is nothing.
Speaker 2:And then when you're trying to get filmmakers, filmmakers don't go for their audience. That's the next thing in the cycle. Filmmakers don't end up putting the effort behind audience building not just putting something on Instagram, but actually audience building because they don't know where their audience is, and that's part of the reason why Julie Mangal exists. Something that I really want to get into in the back end is a data behind it to really see, like, who are the people that are actually interested, so that I can help filmmakers on the island and decide to be able to say, okay, this is the audience, these are things out there Like this is how you reach them, because you don't necessarily need a ton of money to reach your audience, but you're going to need, like, strategy and time. So it's this cyclical thing where it's like them don't have time, them don't have money, them don't know what an audience, so the audience don't watch a thing. And then we're back to the start again where it's just like well, karim, and people don't support Karim in film because they don't know about it.
Speaker 1:But I think a big part of not knowing and I've seen this is when they even in this press run. If you look at, if you just Google Small Acts and Steve McQueen, most of the media that comes up with interviews is New York Times, rotten Tomato, rolling Stones. I don't even really see, I think, the black media in the US. They didn't cover it as abundantly as they would have done for an American-made film of this magnitude. So if you remember, like was it Judas and the Messiah? There was a lot of PR done in the black media space, whereas I didn't feel like that was the case with this one. And not only is there black media, mainstream media, there's also diaspora media like local radio, local television, the local newspapers. Those are things that I think were completely missed.
Speaker 1:And maybe it did happen in the UK, but for our market it was really just word of mouth. And social media is how this was really distributed and reached the masses really, because yes, they did post the trailers and about the film, but there was no big buildup in terms of what the expectations are being able to bring, the connection between the black experience in the UK and tying it into what is happening in the US. So for me, I think that that was one of the bigger missed opportunities from a media perspective is that build within each regional space to really dive in and really talk to Steve. Like you don't know much about him outside of the interviews that he has done and the videos that he has done. But if you think about a normal run for any movie, they're doing every video, every press opportunity, every interview, and that just didn't happen in the US. It didn't happen in this case in particular.
Speaker 2:Right, because I was wondering the same thing yesterday when I was doing some research. I'm like, okay, who did they invite in terms of media? Did they invite, like he said, black media? And I just like I mean we don't know. But I'm wondering if the publicist even thought about that.
Speaker 1:I read on Essence that they did do a Zoom, so it sounds like they had a virtual press junket. If you will, but usually what follows that is more storytelling. Like actors didn't do interviews, and we know John Boyega, we know Leticia, we know Michael Ward. These are actors that are really cornerstones in the project and they didn't do any interviews on this project.
Speaker 2:That I saw anyway. Yeah, because the ones that I saw where they had the cinematographer, the exec director, Steve McQueen, Michael Ward was there, Leticia wasn't there, John wasn't there and two other actors they had, it was a BAFTA thing. So again, that was a UK-based thing I didn't really see a lot of. I mean, I did read some interviews from, like you said, the bigger, wider, like New York Times didn't interview. There are some people that did interviews, like Bustle even did an interview with one of the costume directors, the designers, but, like you said, there wasn't a lot of where you would have a junket where the actor is just the actor and they get to talk to the different publications. Yeah, there wasn't a lot of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, Definitely miss. I think what we did see was a lot of focus on racism and that was really the backdrop of the entire series and while that was a huge part of the challenges, I think you know you and I kind of spoke about that community connection that really wasn't as emphasized and you know, being Caribbean people, especially in the diaspora, there's so much community that happens and that, to me, was even as equally big of a theme as the racism part. But let me know your thoughts in terms of the connection. I have a lot, All right, go on, but I'll stop you, but I'll stop you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do have a lot of thoughts about it and the first thing that I realized after rewatching it so that we could chat, is that you see it in mangrove, because mangrove is a bit earlier than some of the others where the community is so tight. To me, it wasn't just about the nine and what happened after the right. To me I was paying attention to the restaurant, and the restaurant as a place of safety, as a place that you can go in if you're just, if you've just come to the UK, you can go to say, ok, my people are here and, as you mentioned, it's not just Jamaican people, it was people of all Caribbean heritage or from different countries. So that was really to me as like the first film and I think Steve said in a couple interviews that he really wanted that to be the first one and it did set the tone. For like this is a community of people that have a shared experience, not just the fact that they're all new here, but shared in terms of food, in terms that you saw the panning in the street in mangrove, you saw the challenges that they're going through, and also just the history, like talking about different historical things, inter-island or inter-country. So I think that was a good foundation to start on, because you see it kind of deteriorate a bit in terms of that. Everybody dealing with the one issue thing kind of dissipates when you go throughout the film. So, like in education, this mother is dealing with her child on her own. Not even our husband is involved as much as her, even though she herself was kind of like I'm working two jobs, just go to school, right. That was kind of the relationship you see, a more modern relationship there, and the little boy, kingsley, had to really rely on his sister to kind of vent to. So, although the community activists came in at the end, it really showed you that the organic community aspect that we saw in mangrove, where it's just like because we share the space at the restaurant and this is somewhere where we come to lime and socialize and stuff like that, because we already have that built in connection, where we actually have time to socialize with each other. Them helping each other was more organic, whereas you see how the lady had to go undercover to even find Kingsley and other students, other West Indian students in the schools. It was more of like you had to. It's more of an individualization. So, although they had that meeting in the town hall and then they had to stop this school, it still is more modern in terms of we're all living our lives just to live, like we're struggling just to live. Because I think about that a lot.
Speaker 2:When we just moved to Canada, when we were in Jamaica, when I looked at my dad, my dad to me was more social. He was in this club and that club. He was in a photography club because he's a photographer. He was in a. He had a darks club. He played badminton.
Speaker 2:I used to go to my with my dad, to all of these things. I would go to Alpha with my dad and mom on during the week after work they had, because they both worked at BOJ. They had things that they did there. So I saw my parents be way more social when we were in Jamaica versus when you come to Canada. Yes, you know we'll have. My dad always has a barbecue for Labor Day, but that's one of the only times you really he really gets to see all his friends come together.
Speaker 2:So there's a thing when you come to from a small country to a large one like this, where you're so spread out, everybody's spread out. They may live in different cities and your best friend might be an hour away from you. I think in education you then kind of saw that more like modern thing where it's just like everybody's just living their own life. You might not talk to your people, them, you know what I mean. The mother didn't really have friend support is what I'm saying. Versus in mangrove we were seeing more of like something happen. Everybody know about it, everybody's there ready to help out. So that was one of the things that I saw in terms of like the deterioration among the films. That's like we got from the earlier years to the later years.
Speaker 1:That's a great observation because, especially now that you're bringing it up, I do kind of notice it. But I also think that the work life had changed. You know the intensity of when you first arrive and the expectation is very different. And then as you kind of grow, as you know, our parents' generation kind of grew. You know I was a latchkey kid. You know I'd see my mom in the morning, I'd see my mom in the evening and then you know, as we got older, that kind of changed.
Speaker 1:But by that time you know the community had gotten a bit smaller and a little bit more close knit and I think so much happened in between those years that it literally just wore them down as people to just like I don't even have time for the things that are right in front of me, let alone the social aspect. Exactly, and you do get to the social aspect, it's like you pick up where you kind of left off. But I do agree, and it's something I think we can all kind of take notice of and just think about, because you know you go from hanging out like every weekend or every other weekend and now like we just don't like that just is not what we do anymore, and even you know for self that just doesn't happen either. So that was definitely a great point. So we've been talking about all these things. I wanna hear what were some of your favorite moments from the anthology series.
Speaker 2:Ooh, I mean it was hard. It was hard to watch. I don't wanna go too much into love or soot because we're gonna talk about it later, but that was like there were favorite moments there, but in terms of the others it was good. I think the thing that I take away, it's good to see this. I can't even necessarily pinpoint moments because I was just soaking everything in. I'm like okay, the relationship between I think it was Leroy and his father, when the father the hand in the drink, yeah, and you can see that, like in red, white and blue the father really came from a place of hurt. So just seeing the relationships, I think that was my favorite thing.
Speaker 2:And this is why I really like talking about this, because just seeing the relationships that we all know, we all see that I can pinpoint that relationship between a Caribbean mother and father, or his father and son, where it's just like he said to his father you wanted us to be more British than the British in terms of the assimilation, you know what I mean. But the father wanted that because he didn't want them to have to go through the struggle. The man was just parking his truck and then come for him. You get what I'm saying. He wasn't doing anything wrong when they beat him in the street.
Speaker 2:So just seeing the different relationships and I mean, of course, seeing the fashion was fun. Seeing all of that stuff was good. And the way that they use the home, where it's just like. There's so many times where you see the front room being used for so many different things. Right, you see the front room as a place to meet when you're doing your activism, as a place to play Scrabble. That scene was funny to me, where they were playing Scrabble and the man said sex.
Speaker 2:And the man had the wife yeah, he had the wife to make it sexy and he said no, no sex in my house, even though they were already married. You know so, those little, it's the little things, those little nuances, I think were my favorite things. To see those like little little things where it's just like yep, that's a very Caribbean thing, them no one taught both sex. Even though you're married, you're not having sex, so don't even put that on the board, you know. So, stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree I enjoyed the balance of and it's very true to our people as a culture. I like the balance of importance and a lot of education and understanding. But there were so many lighthearted moments, like I remember in Alex Weedow's episode and he's like learning how to walk like a real badman.
Speaker 1:Like just I like that was just so comedic to me, but for him it was like a real thing and you know that is something like. It's like a coming of age of this. You know young teenager who just never learned how to do, he had no influences, you know positive influences, and you know he just had this odd thing about him and then when he's learning how to like walk like a badman and he's like no, no, no, no, walk on the streets with y'all. I look so, yeah, I feel kind of cool on the thing and those are the moments that I think it kind of balanced out. Yeah, because it was heavy. Yes, nis, because it was very. They were all very, very heavy and as jovial as Lovers Rock was, there were some real intense scenes. There's, you know, a rape about to happen and it being stopped, you know, being alone on the street and being the only black person, and you know there were no sorts of moments. There were very strong moments to the culture that we have a visual understanding to now, because you know you and I are yeah we have a new generation, so at least we saw it from a different perspective and I'll talk about
Speaker 1:it more in our next episode. But those were kind of some of my favorite moments. But for me, do you have any last you know thoughts about the series and what do you hope to see next? But in terms of just the industry, I feel like, personally, I'm like they could do a small acts for, like New York, toronto, and the stories would be slightly different, but there would be some similarities but then some distinct differences that I think would be really cool to see. But I mean, I don't think that that's gonna happen, but you know, I think it would be cool. Yeah, I mean Series, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think the thing that I would want to see come from it is more, not necessarily another small acts, but more directors of that that carry the weight that Steve McQueen carries, to really say, okay, I'm going to do this cultural work right, because a conversation that I keep having over and over, especially when I talk about, like actors and stuff like that in a be discovered context, is that it's hard to wear your heritage on your chest when you're trying to survive in a Hollywood system. Right and when I say Hollywood I include the UK in a large system like that because as an actor, as a director, you're really trying to just get your I mean directors have way more say in things but not when you're trying to necessarily sell to a studio. So as somebody in the industry in like a North American context, you're really trying to move your career forward and a lot of time heritage work doesn't get you there. So a lot of times you'll see with actors mostly, where they don't even put their heritage or that they can do this accent on their resumes, which I think is a big, big mistake, even if you are going for roles that are more generic, still put that you can do the accent because, as we know, you're going to see some fake accents and things. So at least put it there so that your agent knows that if something comes across their desk and if they're calling for a native Jamaican accent, we can actually get you in there, right.
Speaker 2:So the thing is so an actor or a director, when they get to the point in their career where they are bigger than bossa or whatever you want to call it right, where they're actually making money from their work, now I would like to see them do what Steve did and switch back and say, okay, now let me create something, now that I've made it in this system and I know it's very hard and there's a whole lot of complex things on the back end in terms of business and like getting the money to get things made but if you have it, if you can sell something that's a cultural work, please do it. Like I'm begging you, you know what I mean. That's what I would like to see more people with names, because if you really look at how many celebrities actors that even have production companies that have Caribbean heritage if those people got together, they could make something. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I'd also love to see, like, more from the region in terms of, you know, series and shorts and like we're very music news heavy but just, you know, we do a lot of plays but those don't turn into sitcoms or you know, I think there are maybe a handful. I've only seen a very small handful. But I think we have this idea of, okay, we have this idea and it has to go. It has to be bigger, it's nothing.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I think the idea of like webisodes, web series and really building on that, like taking up a page out of Issa Ray's kind of book, build where you are and then someone will notice you because the quality of the content is there and there's no shortage of talent to pull off. I mean, we see music videos, like, but music videos aren't even watched in the same way that they are 10, 20 years ago. So you can translate that cinematography look of a five minute video into a much larger project. And I know, you know I'm saying this and it takes a lot and it costs a lot, and I think that there's more support needed regionally to support filmmaking as an industry and I think, coupled with what you just said, as well as the industry's interest in more creative ways to show the culture and the content in a modern and a historical reference way. Those two things will kind of really allow, for you know, this synergy of growth for Caribbean film as a whole.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have some thoughts on that too, because I am trying to be very careful when I kind of take that kind of stance now because of because I'm realizing that there is a lot of work coming out of the Caribbean and there are organizations that are trying to help filmmakers get to in terms of production. I think my I agree with you, but I think where we need to see investment is in distribution and marketing, because people are doing what you're saying People are creating with the little that they have. There are a lot of shorts, and this is a thing. You're not going to see the shorts in a palace or the other one, right. You're not going to see them in the local theaters because they're short. I mean, they can show them before.
Speaker 2:I only usually see shorts at film festivals, right, and that's, and that's part of the problem. So what I think can happen is think about hair love as an example. Hair love, even though it's American, that was played in front of another film, another animated film, for the same audience. Right In the Caribbean, shorts can be shown. If shorts are shown by the exhibitors in front of a feature film that's a similar genre, then that will help with the larger problem that we have, where that cycle that I was talking about, where filmmakers can't promote their stuff, they don't have no money, they don't have no links, they don't have any money to promote their stuff and people think there are no good, because they like to say, oh, caribbean films are low quality. No, they're not.
Speaker 1:They are not.
Speaker 2:Not at all. There are some brilliant work, it's just that they're short. So because they're short, they don't know exhibitors going to say I'm going to buy it, it's because there's not a lot of money that can go into something that short. So if they, if they figure out a model to show those shorts after they have done their film festival runs because sometimes filmmakers hold back stuff because they want to apply for more film festivals so after they've done their film festival run, show them in front of actual feature film that you know that's going to be big. That will help the industry Right, and it won't necessarily cost much extra.
Speaker 2:It's just a little bit of time because some of them are like five, six, seven minutes. I mean you have some that are longer, that are around half an hour. That would need a bit, a little bit more of a different model because it's taking up more time in the cinema. But I think if the cinemas and not just cinemas, cinemas and the film festival run, they're cinemas and the businesses, the digicels, the flows, the businesses that are making money off of the region, If they actually go in and support these in different ways, have different experiences where it's just like it doesn't have to be a film festival, but you can integrate a film into different types of events.
Speaker 2:You forget what I'm saying, right, there's so many different. It just has to be creative. There's so many different creative ways that films can be shown to white audience. This is different, but, like there also are ways that you can think about films in the way that you think about music in terms of live events. You got what I'm saying. They're different little things that we can do, but it will take an investment from again, like I said, the exhibitors and also the corporations that are making money off of the audience that these filmmakers need.
Speaker 1:I agree and I think that's the educational points that you just pointed out is the importance of Julie Mango TV as well. It's to point out what those opportunities are, whether it's in the region or the diaspora, because I think it's relatively unknown. You don't know what you don't know until you can see the options in front of you. So I think that that's great. So any last words before we close off this episode.
Speaker 2:No, watch more Caribbean film. No, seriously. So I always want to shout out like the streaming services. So I don't know if we can maybe link this in the show notes Yep, we can. I have an article that talks about the streaming services. So if you are interested in watching more Caribbean film, there's streaming services that you can have a free trial for them. We actually do a giveaway each month to give two people three month subscription to one of three of those streaming services because we can gift them. So I just want people to know that there are places that you can watch Caribbean film if you want to, and we'll link that because I think it's just very important for people to just know you can. You can watch good quality films.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Thank you so much, rachel. This was so much fun and you're going to be back for the next episode, so we'll have some fun there. So thank you, rachel. Will include all of your information on the show notes, as well as a link to the article that you just spoke of, and you know that's it Leah Tubman Peeps.
Speaker 2:All right, thanks for having me, yeah.